New to the forum? Sign Up Here! Already a member? Please login below.

Forgot your password? Need Help?  
ICSI success rates
scout

Hi Dr. Smith,
Thank you for your giving such thorough answers to everyone's questions. I've spent many hours reading through old posts and getting lots of valuable info.
In one of the old posts, you stated, "If ICSI is performed for severe sperm problems, the success rate is quite low."
This scares me. What exactly does "quite low" mean? What is the basis for this statement?
I have just had one round of failed ICSI (for very poor sperm morphology and borderline counts and motility). We are trying again. We are doing this under the advisement of our RE who said that ICSI "bypasses any sperm issues". He has basically led us to believe that we have as good a chance as anybody doing IVF without ICSI... better in fact, as I am (relatively) young and have no known issues on my side, and, as he says, ICSI "takes care of" all of the male factor issues. He says we have at least a 50% chance... that isn't exactly 'quite low'. Please explain. Thank you so much.


Dr Smith

ICSI is a work around for fertilization problems, but it is not a panecea for all sperm problems. From your description, your husband doesn't really fall into my definition of "severe" sperm probelms. So, take a deep breath and relax. Some examples of "severe" sperm problems would be 0% normal morphology on two or more SAs, extremely low numbers of sperm (i.e. < 1000 in the entire ejaculate) or using testicular or poor quality epididymal sperm. ICSI can overcome problems with fertilization, but when the problem is "severe" the sperm are often genetically abnormal. Although you can achieve fertilization, the abnormal genetics of the sperm results in fewer embryos reaching the blastocyst stage and a higher first trimester miscarriage rate.

I agree with your RE (although he is naive about effect of sperm problems) that your chances are reasonable. The main problem in your case appears to be achieving fertilization. ICSI is the work around of choice in your case. Best of luck.


scout

Thank you for clearing things up. However, the bad news is... he has had 0% morphology on 2 SAs. Sometimes it is 1 or 2% (we tried several IUIs before this). We asked what it was when they did the ICSI, but they said they don't measure it then, they just look for the "best looking" sperm to inject. I know this may be an impossible question to answer, but how much does this morphology issue decrease our chances of not only pregnancy, but making it beyond the first trimester? Also, does this seem like we should push for the 5 day transfer (they did a 3 day last time. After that they let the rest sit for 3 more days... one made it to freeze... I can't help but wonder if the 2 they put in would have made it that long?)
I'm very frustrated with my RE and the embryologist as they often give us very vague information ("The embryo looked nice" when I asked abou the grading of the frozen embryo-- I laughed and asked if 'nice' was the technical term), and seem to dismiss any of my questions about how the sperm issues will affect our chances. They said morphology is just the packaging, what is inside is perfectly fine.
We are going financially and emotionally bankrupt to try this another time. I want to be fully informed so that if we decide to move on to donor sperm or adoption after this, I'll know we've done the right thing.
Thank you again.


Dr Smith

If morphology is only packaging, why does vey poor morphology lead to higher micarriage rates, particularly when very poor morphology is combined with other sperm problems like poor motility?

References:
Sperm morphological assessment based on strict criteria and in-vitro fertilization outcome. Kobayashi T, et al. Hum Reprod. 1991 Aug;6(7):983-6

The relationship between sperm morphology and rates of fertilization, pregnancy and spontaneous abortion in an in-vitro fertilization/intracytoplasmic sperm injection programme. Lundin K, et al. Hum Reprod. 1997 Dec;12(12):2676-81.

Sperm morphology is not just "packaging" and there is a way to find out if the DNA inside the head is O.K. or not. It is called the sperm chromatin structure assay (SCSA). This test evaluates the integrity of the sperm DNA and has some predictive power in terms of fertilization and early miscarriage. For more information on this relatively inexpensive test, go to www.scsadiagnostics.com/MoreInform
ation/FAQ.cfm

Unfortunately
,
it is NOT routine to evaluate morphology on the day of IVF. I do, but I think I'm an exception to the rule. I want to know if the morphology is bad or not so that I can decide whether or not to do ICSI. The sperm "du jour" may be different from previous SAs.

Vague answers are all part of the game. Since, in many cases, the RE or embryologist doesn't know enough to give a specific answer, the answer is vague (instead of coming right out an saying "I don't know"). Me, I just say I dunno, 'cause I don't. If I'm guessing, I'll say so.

If you are only going to try this one more time (did I hear someone say second mortgage?), I'd recommend deciding whether or not to use your husband's sperm based on the results of the SCSA. If its abnormal (or even subfertile), I'd go with donor sperm, provided this option is acceptable to your husband. No matter what the sperm source is, I would suggest culturing the embryos to the blastocyst stage (yeah, I know folks, no surprise there). A higher number of embryos arrest development prior to reaching the blastocyst stage when sperm morphology and motility are poor. If you wait until the embryos reach the blastocyst stage, at least you will know that the embryos are capable of implantation. With Day 3 transfers, you just don't know that for sure and, if it doesn't work, that ends up in a lot of unanswered questions.